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@NinthVirtue @Chris_Buescher @jimfarley98 @Ford @RyanJNewman @mrlevine It may still be ok. Looks like they’re making 2 tiers, under $45k gets full $5k and 45-55 is $2k off. Also, looks like options don’t count towards it. See this thread Post in thread 'Charge-Up NJ rebate program Phase 2' https://t.co/HUUDtfFt0T
@davebudge They should post a list of all the Ford dealers and whether they were selling at MSRP or not.
@TSLAFanMtl @Ford What do we do about the millions of leased f-150 trucks that won’t sell? How do we turn them into a profit instead of piling them up in a boneyard
Like seriously..it’s insane…go look at the markups from MSRP on Ford Rangers, Chevy Colorado’s, & Jeep Gladiators. Orr, better yet..go to a dealer lot & I bet you it’s emptier then normal.
@jacecraftmiller @Ford ……we did to, and paid $5k over 😖 and I never pay MSRP either, I usually get Z-Plan!
Quick comparison of @Ford Mustang to Mach E lifetime costs: Mach E MSRP is $15k higher (ignoring tax rebates), but it saves 4 cents per mile in maintenance costs and 6 cents per mile on fuel costs (US average gas/electricity). So, breakeven after ~150k miles. Cc @AndrewDessler
@TslaSteve @macheauto Yes! We have a couple salesman that we love. They are like our car dads lol. I had 0 issues getting my First Edition at MSRP it was a cancelled order too! But also I would’ve hung up or left right away if it wasn’t anything but MSRP. 🤷🏻♂️
@juliecali88 @MattZeitlin Some in demand cars are going for 3-5k OVER MSRP. Not invoice. MSRP. I live in LA. My closest Subaru dealer, which is huge, has zero inventory on Foresters. None.
@ChrisBetts26 @DJKT_115 FYI... there is about 10.3% markup on a ford F150 from MSRP to invoice. So your aware of the deal they present you, if you look at ford.
@alifarhat6_ali @Ford AND I paid MSRP! It really does happen! I swear haha.
New cars are depreciating assets and never, ever “investments” You can optimize for cost-per-mile-of-operation. You can optimize for cost-per-unit-time. You can optimize for cost-of-money. But under no circumstances is a new car ,EVER, an “investment”
It is going to be hard, since we are already coming on the months when the 2019 models are being delivered to the dealerships. You are also talking about some of the highers demanded vehicles out there. But if you contact a dealer of the brand you prefer, then they can do a dealer vehicle search through their computer network. Don’t try to do it online yourself, you will be inundated with calls and emails from the dealership internet departments. A salesman or sales manager will be able to tell you in a few minutes if there is anything out there that you are looking for. But you will definitely be able to get a great deal if there is anything out there. You can also get a great deal on a 2018 model now any way, and there are a lot of rebates and discounts on them any way, so it may not be advantageous to look for a 2017.
Most cars, even if well maintained, go down in value, but if you hold them long enough, some go way back up . There are some that go up in value from the moment you buy it. My BMW Z8 did. The day I went to sign for it, there was a guy in the lobby ready to pay me $25K to step aside and let him buy it. Today, it is worth about 1.5X the $135K sticker price, and that’s with 49K miles on it. It’s like I’m being paid to drive it. If I could have kept the mileage below 1,000, it would be worth 2X MSRP or even more. But I have no regrets. It may be a garage queen, but I do drive it some, carefully. Below is a picture of it with 7 of my closest car-buddy friends (mine’s top right). Other cars that appreciate include limited edition Ferrari’s and Lamborghinis. The problem with Ferrari is that you have to be invited to get on the wait list. Historically, other car that have held value without ever dropping below MSRP include AC Cobra, Sunbeam Tiger, (sold mine - with regrets), Ford GT, limited production Corvetes like the ZR-1s, etc. There are plenty examples, subject to a specific selection criteria. The trick is to find the car with a nation-wide waiting list before the first one is delivered. Get on that list with a non-refundable deposit ($1–2K should do, but maybe more) and draw up a simple agreement that says you’ll pay MSRP the day it arrives, sight-unseen. Deep dive the automotive press. I did the same on a Ford GT, and it got ugly, and the Ford dealer ended up paying me $40K to cancel the agreement 2 years later and let them keep the car. But that’s another story - it’s here on Quora. With regard to instant appreciation, if there is even one un-spoken for car on the lot, that ain’t it. So forget doing a test drive. So that’s what makes this picture (below) so special - there was never a single Z8 in a BMW showroom anywhere that had not already been sold. BMW didn’t re-neg like the Ford dealer tried to. The wait list was greater than the entire planned production run before the 1st car was delivered. The 30 second commercial had to be pulled almost immediately. But we packed in 8 of them into a dealer’s showroom for a party we now call the “8/8/08 8:08:08 Party” This was a send-off party for us shipping the 8 cars to California for Pebble Beach Car Week. This picture was taken on 8/8/08 at 8:08:08 pm, and the dealer (Classic BMW of Plano, Tx) popped 8 bottles of champagne to launch the pre-shipment celebration party. We flew out to CA a few days later, picked them up at the San Mateo BMW dealer and had the time of our life. Prime parking for these 8 + 24 Californian = 32 Z8s. Then the 8 were shipped back to Texas. Classic BMW sold every one of their allotment (of about 16), but has steadily collected them off the used car market and now the dealership owner personally owns 12. I don’t think any of them are for sale - for now. But if they are, it certainly north of the MSRP of 18 years ago.
Manufacturers do make “stripped” models, as much as possible. For example, Ram makes a line called the Tradesman. A Tradesman truck comes with rubber floor mats instead of carpet, few power accessories, a vinyl split bench seat, no chrome trim and a 6-cylinder engine. It’s pretty affordable. Just for kicks, I virtually “built” one on the Ram website and the price was $24,240 MSRP, before factory and dealer incentives. That’s almost the same price as a Hyundai Tucson and less than a Honda Accord. Chevy and Ford also make bottom of the line models for fleet and trade use. You won’t find the manufacturers or dealers promoting these heavily because there’s less profit margin, but if that’s what you want, they’re out there, and companies, governments and utilities buy them.
Depreciation rates and resale values are a supply and demand function. The more people who want the used cars of that make and model versus the number of sellers affects resale value. The end result is that there are some vehicles that have resale values so high that you should buy them new and some that have so low values that it would be a folly financially speaking to do anything but to buy used. Here is an example: The Best and Worst Cars to Buy New vs. Used Luxury cars tend to depreciate rapidly due to the nature of how they are sold. Many who purchase opt to lease rather than to buy outright. Out of warranty they also tend to have more expensive repairs. Parts cost more and so does labour. Yes, some brands and vehicles are seen as more reliable. However not always. Some brands with a low perception of their reliability can sometimes have good resale values too if demand is high. What about discounts? As far as do they offer a smaller discount, my experiences have been that incentives are offered on vehicles when there is an overcapacity at the plant level versus demand. Usually incentives are offered on a specific model and make, rather than across an entire brand. Often even then incentives are offered based on the trim of that car in that brand. As far as if incentives would affect resale, it would depend. Are there more people who buy to keep only for a couple of years or are they buying to keep for while? Then you have to look at demand for that car used. Fleet sales, or sales to the rental market can also lead to a lower resale as used vehicles flood the market. Long answer short, used car prices are very complex and there are a ton of factors affecting them.
Last year I needed a car. I said to myself “This time will be different”, “This time I’ll flip the car game in my favor and ,make them feel dirty.” I was tired of that powerless feeling i got in the past from interacting with dealers, tired of that uneasiness of wondering just how bad I got taken advantage of. I read blogs, I read forums, I researched car tactics on YouTube, and honed my skills to reverse engineer ,any sleaziness. I was READY. I was a car negotiating NINJA. Below, I’ll share exactly how I learned lease payment calculation, to avoid dealership tricks, and get an extremely low payment. If you read nothing else below, the general rule of thumb is that a good monthly lease payment is 1% or less of the MSRP price of the car. Here’s the breakdown: Negotiation Leeway - ,“Luxury cars” have between roughly 12%-16+ negotiation leeway off of the MSRP price, whereas the cars like Ford, Toyota, etc, have barely any markup at 3–5%. This means that in many cases you can easily pay less to lease a BRAND NEW Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, then you would for a Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. You can STACK rebates and incentives - ,If the dealer has a college rebate, a $2,000 “incentive”, and $1,000 dealer cash they can be combined on top of what you already negotiated off the car. You may have to hunt around online for all the available incentives because dealers don’t like to tell you they are available. Residual Value - ,this is a % that the car is worth after a lease term. If for example a car has an MSRP of 40K and the residual value is 60%, then the car is worth 24,000 after the lease. Money Factor -, Some dealers will gladly tell you and some wont. You can often turn to, ,Edmunds, and find the money factor for a particular car you are interested in. The money factor is presented as a 5 decimal number like this (.00134). All you have to do to calculate the “interest rate” is multiply by 2,400. (example .00134 x 2,400 = 3.216% interest rate) Never put money Down,….There’s no need to. but if you do, each $1,000 you put down equates to about $22–$30 less in monthly payment. Let’s construct the monthly payment together! So you’ve done some digging on the car you want….and you got all the required numbers to construct a payment. **(note: these are example below. Each car will have a different MSRP, Residual, money factor and amount you can apply for rebates and incentives) MSRP of $40,000 (for a “luxury brand”) Residual = 61% Money Factor = .00134 Total rebates = $3,000 $40,000 MSRP - 16% discount - $3,000 in rebates = $30,600 We always have to add the dealer fees back into the equation, so let’s do that now. $30,600 +995 = $31,595 We are almost there! To get your exact monthly payment you need to calculate two things. don’t be scared. It’s easy…. Depreciation (net cap cost - residual amount in $$) / lease term in months) Finance Fee (Net Cap Cost + Residual Amount) * Money Fact,or Let’s start with Depreciation…The net cap cost is the $31,595. You then take the residual amount in dollars (61% residual x MSRP of $40K = $24,400 residual) and put it together. Depreciation = ($31,595 - $24,400) / 36 month lease term = $199 Next let’s put together the finance fee. Finance fee = ($31,595 +$24,400) * Money factor .00134 = $75 So, the lease payment is a combination of the “depreciation” and “finance fee” calculations, $199+75 = $274. The only thing you need to add to that is roughly $30 per month to account for tax. DONE. Total payment after tax of $304. for a $40K car with no money down. If you learn how to calculate this by hand right in front of the car salesman, I assure you the look on their face will be priceless….
This was crazy. It’s about one of these. In ~2003, North Central Ford of Richardson Texas agreed to sell me the lst 2004 Ford GT that they got, at MSRP. That was going to be ~$150K. At first, I had to explain to the Sales Manager what it was, show him the first picture of it that he’d seen, and a picture of the Prototype at Pebble Beach in 2002. He said he figured I was a legit buyer because I went there in my BMW Z8, a comparably priced limited production car, that he did actually recognize. On my 2nd visit, I got the Sales Manager to sign a 1-page (3–4 sentence) agreement letter. Afterwards, I dropped in the dealership to see him about every 90 days to follow up on the car’s highly anticipated delivery, and to remind them of our agreement, which he always acknowledged verbally. On two such visits, I brought along a car-guy buddy as “witness” to our agreement. Some of these meetings were simply quick meet & greets in the hallways where the terms of my deal were discussed briefly. In late ‘04, when I became aware that the 1st cars were being shipped and in transit, I went by the dealership again, for about the 5th time, but I was told that the former Sales Manager no longer worked there, so I asked to see the new Sales Manager, and someone took me upstairs to his office. I made the new Sales manager aware of the details of the deal I’d made with the dealership before he worked there, and he said “well, that’s bullshit. There is no way we’re gonna do that. That car is all over the press. We are going to sell that car on EBay Motors for $300K.” I re-iterated that we had an agreement in writing signed by his predecessor, and, at his request, showed him a copy. He read it and said “Well, the agreement says what you said it does, but we ain’t going to do that.” I said “Well, you leave me no choice but to pursue this by other means.” and he said “Good luck!”. As I turned to walk out of his office, I turned back briefly and said “I assure you, luck won’t have anything to do with it.” (I couldn’t resist) I found a young freshly-minted SMU JD-grad lawyer, and when the car showed up 2 days later, my lawyer filed a lawsuit and got a judge to put a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) on the car. It prohibited the dealership from offering it for sale, removing any of the shipment protection materials, dis-allowing anyone (including their employees) from driving it, until further notice. Even the mechanics in the service department couldn’t put a wrench on it. I went up there, and went to the service department where the Service Manager let me come in their shop in the back and look, but not touch. This was the 1st or 2nd Ford GT delivered in the DFW metroplex. This was a big deal. There was a story on the cover of the Dallas Morning News business section. There were dozens of people back there in a service bay, ohh-ing and awe-ing, including a a new car salesman that didn’t know me. I told him I was ready to pay cash at MSRP, but he said that “the car has a little legal cloud hanging over it” but as soon as that was cleared up, he could sell it to me for $240K, and wrote that number on the back of his business card without even writing down my name. The car had the TRO court order taped to the driver-side door glass. The judge in this case made us go to mediation before it could go to trial, and so me and my young lawyer met with the recommended licensed mediator (a former Dallas judge) and the dealership brought in 2 suits from the headquarters that owns the dealership - Sonic Automotive of Nashville, TN (same guys that own the Texas Motor Speedway Indy/NASCAR track in Fort Worth), not to mention owning about 200 other car dealerships. They claimed to be representing the 2nd biggest car dealership company in the nation, after Auto Nation. After polite introductions in the main conference room, the parties were situated in separate conference rooms, and the mediator started playing shuttle diplomacy, going back and forth between us, giving the other party’s argument and pushing for a settlement. As one point she told me and my lawyer that they knew I had high-end cars, and at trial they would show that I was an “opportunist, not a genuine Ford product buyer, and and they would characterize me as just an exotic car flipper hoping to profit unfairly”. I told the mediator to tell them that my rebuttal in court would be: “I have an 11 year old Jeep, a 6 year old BMW, a 4 year old BMW and a Yukon Denali. Furthermore, I haven’t sold but one car in the last 5 years. But at trial, and I will insist on a jury, I will characterize them as … car dealers … and as redundant as it may sound, dishonest ones at that. And I will make it stick.” Suddenly it became a price discussion. I agreed unilaterally to add $10K (good faith, for a total of $160K), but they insisted on the $300K number. Then, I let them know that they had quoted $240K to me, and I could prove it. We went back and forth on whether or not that was a bone fide offer, and I then provided more information - that $240K was also what they quoted a friend of mine who went by to look like I did but later in the day. He would be called by me as a witness. They caved, and agreed that $240K was their “best & final” asking price. But I rejected the new offer. I wasn’t done with them yet. After a few back and forth rounds about how rock-solid my MSRP deal was, they offered a cash settlement of $20K for me to just abandon my lawsuit and walk away. I said “Tell them no, and that if I see them again, it will be in a downtown Dallas County courtroom”. The mediator tried to talk me out of taking such a hard stand, but carried the message to them anyway. She came back in about 10 minutes and asked if we could agree on a cash settlement somewhere in the middle, and I said yes, of course, but it would have to be smack dab in the middle between my best offer of $160K and their best asking price of $240K. In other words, we were $80K apart, and if they want to write a check for $40K, I’ll go away and abandon my claims to the car. Otherwise, I’d pursue my rights to buy the car for the $150K list price in my 1-page agreement. The mediator came back and said we had a deal, and we signed a settlement agreement that they were able to prepare quite quickly. And two hot-shot Nashville lawyers went home with their tails between their legs, probably more concerned about catching their flight. Three days later, I got a $40K check, and paid my lawyer $6K for about an hour of prep and 2 hours of an arbitration meeting that had left his head spinning. And literally the next day, Ford recalled all the Ford GTs nation-wide due to upper-A-arm cracks, so the initial Ford GT owners had to put their brand-new cars back in the shop and wait about 6 months to get them retrofit with yet-to-be-designed beefier A-arms. That was the best car deal I ever did. No tax, no title, no license, no insurance, no gas and a nice financial result for me (and my new lawyer buddy). I bought a 1/18 scale model Ford GT that’s on my trophy shelf, with the Sales Manager’s business card tucked under its tiny little windshield wipers. Is that crazy enough?
For which trim level 2021 Ford Explorer and where? What are the current rebates and incentives available on the date of purchase? Are you financing or paying cash? All these factors and more will determine what percentage of MSRP might be available for you.
Are you buying a car or a deal? Getting over $5500.00 off a brand new car (even if it’s not a current model it’s still new) sounds pretty good. I assume you have driven and like the vehicle, are there any options on the 2018 model worth over $5500.00 more? I had the same thing happen in late 2015, I could by a 2015 vehicle for $26,000 or a 2016 version for $32,000. The 2016 had an updated interior but was basically the same car. I bought the 2015. I’ve been quite satisfied with my decision, especially when it comes time to make the monthly payment.