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jatco vl transmission Q&A Review
Which auto company makes the best automatic transmission?
General Motors make good ones,the TH700R unit was adapted to fit by people doing mods on the Holden only optioned Nissan RB30ET in a VL Commodore. The E4N71B Jatco transmission got tired very quickly behind the Nissan RB30ET engine which was the turbocharged variant of the RB30E which was basically a larger version of the Nissan RB20E engine,no the parts aren't interchangeable with them as that engine had smaller diameter crankshaft journals,smaller connecting rods & pistons. Even without a lockup torque converter for overdrive the transmission was very marginal behind the turbocharged engine,so people started bolting the GM TH700R unit behind that engine. It wasn't until the R33 Skyline in 1995 what the Japanese automatic transmission company made a 4 speed automatic transmission which was equally as strong as the updated TH700R (the 4L60E) transmission & as strong as the one found behind the 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 at that,the later & improved JATCO found its way behind the Nissan RB25DE (T) & RB20(D)E engines in the R33 Skyline. GM have got transmission factories all around the world & they've made good 6 speed automatic transmissions such as the 6L80E which was made in Strasbourg in France, although it's successor the 8L90E was built in Toledo in Ohio,it has had a shudder problem which GM can't fix so I'd keep away from them. That's why I ditched a rebuilt JATCO E4N71B as it had the same problem, I think it was caused by dodgy torque converters,I replaced it with the MF5 5 speed manual transmission. Allison are another good transmission brand which are used in larger vehicles !
Why do pushrod engines make more torque?
I don't find that they make more torque than an overhead camshaft engine for example. There's an argument that a 2 valve per cylinder SOHC engine will make more torque than a 4 valve per cylinder DOHC engine,I found that was a load of bullcrap once I built this Nissan RB30DE engine :— I used the 10:1 compression ratio Nissan RB25DE pistons & 24 valve DOHC cylinder head which I bolted onto RB30E engine block & fitted the higher compression RB25DE pistons into,well,it pulled as hard in 4th gear as this 12 valve SOHC RB30E engine did in 3rd gear :— The Nissan RB30DE engine which was this RB30E engine is fitted into the engine bay of my 1986 model Holden VL Commodore which was the first unleaded Holden built in Australia,it was fitted with the Japanese built Nissan engine when Holden was struggling to get their own 3.3 litre Holden six to run on unleaded fuel to comply with the then current emission control laws. Now,that engine in EFI form was released only with a 3 speed automatic (3L30) transmission option,no manual transmission option was available with this non crossflow EFI pushrod overhead valve 6 cylinder engine option :— It ran the Bosch LE2 —Jetronic EFI system & it did have more bottom end torque than the 3 litre Nissan RB30E powered Holden VL Commodore if it was the automatic option which was fitted with the Jatco E4N71B automatic transmission,I put it down to the VK Commodore having an engine which was 300 CCS bigger than the VL Commodore,the Nissan RB30E engine was more powerful at 114 flywheel kilowatts than the EFI 3.3 litre pushrod Holden six which had a 106 flywheel kilowatt power output but the 3.3 litre six generated 266 Newton Metres of torque @ 3,200 RPMs. The Nissan RB30E engine developed 247 Newton Metres of torque @ 3,600 RPMs which I think has more to do with its 3 litre displacement than being an overhead cam engine,the 5 speed manual optioned 3 litre 6 cylinder powered VL Commodores seemed to have as much bottom end torque as the automatic 3.3 litre EFI VK Commodore as the manual transmission seems to help the 3 litre Nissan RB30E engine out. The DOHC Nissan RB30DE engine is no comparison to all of the other engines I have talked about on here,it seemed to have more torque than even the 3.3 litre EFI pushrod Holden six, maybe the 10:1 compression ratio versus the stock RB30E engines 9:1 compression ratio & the 30% increase in airflow of the RB25DE cylinder head over the RB30E cylinder head made a very noticeable increase in torque right from just about idle speed to 7000 RPMs when it was bolted onto the RB30E engine block. The 2,962 cc capacity of the RB30E engine block remained unchanged so a 4 valve per cylinder cylinder head can also increase bottom end torque as well. A good example of a pushrod engine which has less bottom end torque than an engine of equivalent size is the 3.8 litre Buick L36 V6 engine where the engine blocks deck height was lowered which meant that 1 inch shorter connecting rods had to be used & the crankshaft & pistons had to be redesigned to maintain a 97mm bore size & an 86mm stroke,this meant that the engine became more revable from 4,800 rpms in the LN3-L27 V6 engines up to 5,500 RPMs with the L36 V6 engine. So the tyre smoking ability that the 3.8 litre Buick LN3 & L27 V6 engines wasn't what the L36 V6 engine had anymore,so being a pushrod engine had nothing to do with it rather the engine block, piston, connecting rod & crankshaft design did. The 3.8 litre Buick LN3 V6 engine had a 292 Newton Metres peak torque output @ 3,200 RPMs & the 3.8 litre Buick L36 V6 engine had a peak torque output of 305 Newton Metres @ 3,600 RPMs therefore its peak torque output was generated higher in the RPM range,it did produce more torque albeit higher in the RPM range. Now, Toyota has a 4 litre 1GR-FE 24 valve quad cam V6 engine which is produces its peak torque of 377 Newton Metres @ 4,400 RPMs so that engine doesn't have pushrods !
How do you know if an engine will fit in your car?
You have to measure it with a tape measure & take note of the engine mounting points meaning will it sit far enough forward or back ? For example,a Chevrolet Gen3–Gen5 V8 engine will sit in the same spot as the old 350 Chevrolet V8 engine or in the case with a Holden mounting hardware is available to allow it to sit where an old Holden 6 cylinder or V8 engine once sat,the HQ Holden GTS Monaro came out with a 350 Chevrolet V8 engine & 4 speed Muncie manual transmission as an option. Some of the Holden V8 engines had the turbo hydramatic bolt pattern meaning that the automatic TH350 off that engine will bolt onto the Gen3-Gen5 Chevrolet V8 engines or you can convert it over to a TH700R which is essentially a TH350 with a 4 speed overdrive ratio transmission or the fully electronic transmission will sit in the same spot as the TH350 transmission. Note that fitting the Trimatic (3L30) transmission won't work as they have a different bell housing bolt pattern & adapting them to suit isn't worth it. In the Holden VL Commodores they were fitted with both the Nissan RB30E & RB30ET engines coupled up to either the Jatco E4N71B automatic transmission or the MF5 (non turbocharged) 5 speed manual transmission or the MX7 (turbocharged) 5 speed manual transmission,a whole host of single & twin cam RB series 6 cylinder Skyline engines are almost a straight bolt in fit including the :- RB20E - 98 kilowatt 2 litre engine,not really a worthwhile swap RB20DE - A 114 kilowatt 2 litre twin cam engine,not really a worthwhile swap over from the 114 kilowatt RB30E engine. RB20DET - The 147 kilowatt redtop or 165 kilowatt silvertop camshaft cover engines,they were a worthwhile upgrade from the RB30E engine but you will need to rob the Australian built CA20E powered automatic Nissan Pintara of its 4.11:1 diff gears as they need to rev to make them perform as the standard 3.45:1 diff gears are too tall for the 2 litre engine which makes them go like rubbish,I was advised to go for at least an RB25DET engine as the Japanese importers reckoned that I'd have to rev the guts out of them all the time. RB25DE - while it's a 147 kilowatt 2.5 litre twin cam engine, its power is developed in the higher RPM band, someone did it & while it did have a tad more power than the 3 litre RB30E engine,it wasn't all that much different in performance,not really worth swapping the RB30E engine for it. RB25DET - In its day it was a worthwhile swap over from the RB30E engine as it had a standard power output of 187 flywheel kilowatts. RB26DETT - They were worth it back in the day,in the VL Commodore or the Australian built Nissan R31 Skyline they needed to have the 4WD Skyline GT-R alloy oil pan swapped over to a conventional steel RB engine oil pan & pickup tube,they made 206 flywheel kilowatts & they had plenty of potential in twin turbocharged form, they had thicker cylinder walls which could handle more boost than the other Nissan RB engines,the only downfall for the Godzilla engine is its cost,at between $8000-$10,000 AUD for an RB26DETT engine package they weren't cheap, even if you do find a cheap one you can make any bet that they have been thrashed & even if it had been rebuilt it wasn't done properly. My local Japanese importer had to overhaul one because it had been rebuilt with new piston rings & bearings,well,this engine was rebuilt like that & it had a flat spot on one of the crankshaft bearing journals because it either came onto boost very hard or they hit it with a big shot of nitrous oxide which caused that sort of damage,so even if you buy a “cheap” engine then expect to have it rebuilt properly which means remachining or replacing the damaged parts which is going to be expensive, that's why they were saying there's no such thing as a cheap Nissan Skyline GT-R !
Which engine is better between a 5L engine and a 3L engine?
When Holden released the VL Commodore in 1986 in Australia they tried to kill of their 5 litre V8 engine particularly after the mandatory use of unleaded fuel came into play in February 1986,they imported both the 114 kilowatt non turbocharged Nissan RB30E & the Holden only 150 kilowatt Nissan RB30ET which was turbocharged from Nissan in Japan. The RB30E engine was also fitted into the Australian built Nissan R31 Skyline but the turbocharged RB30ET engine was only fitted into a Holden under a contractual agreement between Nissan & Holden that it could only be fitted into a Holden. As you can imagine there was a big outcry from the V8 community in Australia when the leaded 126 kilowatt Holden (304 cubic inch) 5 litre V8 engine was axed in favour of Japanese 6 cylinder power, Holden were forced to come up with a plan which involved fitting an unleaded 122 kilowatt version of the Holden 5 litre V8 engine into the VL Commodore which came out with either the option of the Trimatic (3L30) 3 speed automatic or the T5 Borg Warner 5 speed manual transmission. The 3 speed automatic 5 litre V8 powered car drank twice as much fuel as the 114 kilowatt Nissan RB30E powered car which either ran the first ever computerized 4 speed Automatic transmission, namely the Jatco E4N71B automatic transmission,they said the performance of the 5 litre V8 engine was nothing to get too excited about as it was said it performed the same as the 3 litre non turbocharged engine,the RB30E was coupled up to the MF5 5 speed manual transmission & the RB30ET was coupled up to the stronger MX7 5 speed manual transmission as well. The RB30E engine ran the Jatco E4N71B automatic transmission which had a lockup torque converter & the RB30ET engine ran that one with a non lockup torque converter. Back then the 3 litre Nissan engine was arguably better than the standard 5 litre V8 engine but if you compared the power output of the previous model VK Commodore which ran the 177 kilowatt 5 litre V8 engine in the Police cars which was built up to the specifications of the late & legendary Bathurst 1000 car racer Peter Brock & was supplied to the Police force when they ordered the csrs from Holden, Holden V8 fanatics would say that one was better. Even then, Peter Brock said the best engines Holden had ever fitted at the time was the Nissan 3 litre 6 cylinder engine,then the V8 crowd would argue that the VL Commodore that race car driver Tom Walkinshaw developed for Holdens special vehicles division in 1988 was better than them, he ran the 180 kilowatt 5 litre EFI V8 engine in it,it ran twin throttle bodies & tuned length inlet manifold runners & ran a Borg Warner BT5G 5 speed manual transmission behind it. The next year (1989) the 165 kilowatt fuel injected Holden 5 litre V8 engine finds its way under the bonnet of the VN Commodore as both Nissan engines were killed off in 1988 due to the rising valve of the Yen against the Australian dollar, sadly,the 127 kilowatt 3.8 litre Buick LN3 V6 engine was fitted in a hurry which was prone to oil & water leaks in the place of the Nissan RB30E engine, both engines were supposed to find their way under the bonnet of the VN Commodore. The 3 litre Nissan engines were probably sealed off better than the V6 & V8 engine,the Nissan engine was prone to cracking cylinder heads in the VL Commodore but it wasn't the fault of the engine rather Holden could've revised the cooling system as the radiator sat lower in the VL Commodore than it did in the R31 Skyline which rarely had the problem, maybe they could've fitted a coolant header tank so the air would bleed out through that,I used a tall funnel (soft drink bottle), opened the bleed screw on the inlet manifold, topped it up with coolant then bled the air out that way,I have never cracked a cylinder head in that car. The Nissan engines ran a single overhead cam alloy crossflow cylinder head & a cast iron engine block,the Holden 5 litre V8 engine was an all cast iron pushrod overhead valve engine. The Nissan RB30E(T) engine was a homologation of the L series Datsun 6 cylinder engine,so in 1986 it was an all new design basically. The Holden 5 litre (304 cubic inch) V8 engine was a homologation of the 253 cubic inch Holden V8 engine which was first built in 1969,it started off as a 308 cubic inch V8 engine in the HQ Holden Kingswood in 1971 then due to the CAMS racing rules for the Bathurst 1000 race in 1984 they ruled that the engines had to be strictly capped at 5000ccs,the problem was the Holden 5 litre V8 engine was 5031ccs so Holden re engineered it to be 4987ccs in capacity which is down to 304 cubic inches from 308 cubic inches. In summary, the Nissan 3 litre was technically a better engine than the 5 litre Holden V8 engine but many people would keep arguing that the 5 litre V8 engine was better,I would not compare any of them to the modern 5 litre V8 engines such as the Nissan VK50VE or the Hyundai Tau 5 litre V8 engine since they are between 20–40 years newer !
What is your favorite 20th century auto made by a US auto company?
Well,General Motors is American but my favourite one was made in Australia by Holden or GMH (General Motors Holden), it was the VL Commodore which was basically a restyled Opel Rekord which was assembled in Australia,the sedans were all made in Australia & their sheet metal was formed on their Hamilton press. The wagons bodies were imported from Germany apparently but the cars were built to suit the Australian conditions, they ran the in line six cylinder & V8 Holden powertrains in 1978 from the outgoing HZ Kingswood model in the VB Commodore. From 1980–1985 the VC-VK Commodores were a homologation of that car with improvements such as the addition of 12 port cylinder heads from 1980 on the sixes, electronic ignition & dual barrel varijet carburetor to replace the old single barrel Bendix-Stomberg unit which saw the power increase from 66 up to 71 kilowatts. From 1984–1985, Holden ditched the 173 cubic inch six & 253 cubic inch V8 engine because they added the Bosch EST (electronic spark timing) ignition control module to the carby engines, they claimed to be able to get the 173 engines fuel consumption out of the 202 cubic inch six while it had about the same power output as the single exhaust 253 cubic inch engine (86 kilowatts), many people would say the fuel consumption remained worse than the 253 V8 @ 18–20 miles per UK gallon. The twin exhaust 253 V8 engine (100 kilowatt power output) was dropped also & replaced with a fuel injected 202 cubic inch engine which was controlled by a Bosch L-Jetronic ECU which was all analogue, it ran the camshaft from the old racing HQ Holden Kingswoods (1971–1974 model) 202 cubic inch engine,it was a bit more aggressive than the stock camshaft & Holden added their own factory EFI intake manifold & stainless steel exhaust headers. So,that added 20 kilowatts of power on top of what the carby 202 engine had to make it 106 kilowatts,while there was a big increase in power it negated any savings in fuel,it was the same as I mentioned before,the only other V8s were the stock 126 kilowatt 5 litre engine & the 177 kilowatt Peter Brock special 5 litre V8 engine which were used in the police pursuit cars. The one I drove 15–20 years ago was the VL Commodore, I crashed one & bought another, the Holden powertrain was completely replaced in 1986 with the Nissan RB30E engine & Jatco E4N71B automatic or MF5 5 speed msnual transmission,the E4N71B was the very first of the electronic 4 speed automatic transmissions which coupled up to the first 3 litre in line six to be controlled by a digital computer in Australia. Holden had trouble getting the 202 engine to run efficiently on unleaded fuel so they scoured the world for an engine, the Nissan was the best bet also being fitted by Nissan Australia in the then Australian built Nissan R31 Skyline up until 1991,on February 1986,the compulsory sale of new unleaded vehicles became mandatory due to tightening emission control laws. That was the more powerful 114 kilowatt engine which delivered 30–35 miles per U.K. gallon on the highway so it made the VL Commodore arguably the best Holden ever produced,Nissan did build a turbocharged version under contract for Holden only to ever be fitted into a Holden, Nissan Australia never got that 150 kilowatt engine which was also used in the police pursuit vehicles. They did make a carby 5 litre V8 engine which was detuned & decompressed to run on unleaded fuel with a power output of 122 kilowatts, they were hardly worth buying with about the same power as the 3 litre six & about double the fuel consumption. It wasn't until Holdens special vehicles division developed the quad throttle body Delco EFI controlled 5 litre V8 with a 5 speed manual transmission that made them worth buying if you had $50,000 AUD to spend in 1988,it was the VL Walkinshaw Commodore. It wasn't until about 1989 that Holden themselves produced the EFI 5 litre V8 VN Commodore with 165 kilowatts of power. The VL was a stop gap model because the VN Commodore wasn't ready, the Nissan RB30 was supposed to make its way into the VN Commodore as several prototypes ran that engine, it was the doubling of the value of the Yen against the Australian dollar saw Holden source the U.S. built 3.8 litre Buick LN3 V6 engine & TH700R 4 speed automatic transmission,the first VN Commodore was made in 1988. I personally didn't like it,while it had heaps of low down torque & good fuel economy from the 127 kilowatt engine it ran like a pig & many of them were returned under warranty due to water leaks from corroding Welsh plugs in the engine block & oil leaks from the 2 piece rope rear main oil seal which was a complete failure. In 1991,that engine was made to accept a full neoprene rear main oil seal but there were still issues with some of them where the seal wouldn't sit straight inside the bearing caps so some of them leaked also up until 1994–1995. I held onto the VL as long as I could,I still have it but it's off the road,my current Commodore runs the 5.7 litre V8 Chev LS1 engine which I really like driving, it is a 2002 model but. My second favourite would've been the 1972 model HQ Holden Kingswood.
What happens when a torque converter locks up?
Inside of a lockup torque converter there's 2 friction discs that are hydraulically operated via the torque converter clutch solenoid,it provides a solid drive through the overdrive gears inside of the transmission then to the back wheels. I've had that fail in a 4 speed Jatco E4N71B transmission that I got rebuilt in a Nissan RB30E powered Holden VL Commodore,they were rebuilt torque converters that kept failing because the friction material kept separating from the torque converter so I got fed up with getting the torque converters replaced so I bolted the Nissan MF5 5 speed manual transmission into the car !
How much would an automatic to manual transmission swap cost?
I did mine for about $900 AUD about 20 years ago,it was to swap the Jatco E4N71B automatic transmission for a Nissan MF5 transmission in a Holden VL Commodore which ran the Nissan RB30E engine !
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